For Sale dissapeared?

[al09]

Yes, it was intentional - see informational message by Folbot linked at the 1st page. Yes, Dave is right, it was a mistake. Some boats will now turn up at Craigs where you have no clue who the seller is, and consequently, no history of the boat even if it's somebody known at this forum. Like Dave mentioned, there is For Sale section at http://foldingkayaks.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=2 - registration is required, this helps fighting spam. It probably has less exposure than Craigs - there is hardly any place with more exposure than Craigs, though I'm less sure that Craigs is a popular folders' meet. At the end of the listing you can provide a link to the http://www.folbotforum.com for further discussion and/or photo galleries if you wish so. Some of those interested will talk at the Foldingkayaks.org (since they are already there), and some - both at the FKO and here.

Read Rules before posting - Ebay links are not allowed, and neither are 3 and more URL in one message. Pictures can't be uploaded - you should provide link to the actual location of the picture file, then it will be displayed, but there isn't much need - everybody knows how certain model looks, and detailed info requires more than a few pictures.

Additionally, you might casually mention here that are selling your boat at the FKO.

FKO crowd is mixed. People are asking in the section What Boat for Me, for example, whether they should get a Cooper or Kahuna, and there is a segment interested in Kleppers only - those won't consider any similar aluminum frame, just want to have a wooden frame and this is it. Those who don't know what they need yet, will consider any options.

[GEORGIA]

This actually saddens me. I believe if people are gonna buy sparkly new Folbots then they will buy sparkly new boats. Some people potentailly aren't able to purchase new boats but may get into a used one & upgrade later. If people intent to buy used boats then they will whether they are Folbot or not. Your company isn't the only one experiencing the tough economical times - other people are too. I recently bought a 2009 Olive Edisto & a 2009 Orange Kiawah. We have used them ONCE & I truly LOVE them however we just found out we are expecting a baby & now I need to sell them to make room & to re-distribute funds towards baby furniture much to my sadness about giving up my boats ( temporarily). I want to sell them to a good home now & as soon as this child can doggy paddle & wear a life vest we were planning to purchase another set of boats *SPARKLY & NEW* from Folbot but since reading this thread I guess I need to take my business to Craig's List & Ebay. I wonder what else will change for the worst at Folbot? Too bad from such an amazing company & I thought a close-knit "family" hmmm....

Georgia
leighdees@yahoo.com

[oldkayaker]

Hi Georgia,
Congratulations on the pregnancy. FYI, with the proper stand on which to place it and something to keep the kid out of the bow and stern a Folbot makes an excellent crib. I think we are still family. The difference is we now have a stepfather. http://www.foldingkayaks.org/ , mentioned in the post preceding yours, is where some of us are going. I just checked and they do not currently have any boats listed. It wasn't readily apparent how to add a listing but I'm sure they have plenty of help for that sort of thing.
Earl

[punga]

I have a new Kiawah that has never been used that I would like to sell. I have taken it out of the bag, assembled, disassembled and placed back into the backpack.

I fish from my kayak and find it much easier to fish from my sit-on-top (used a friend's Folbot to try this).

If anyone interested, will sell for $1200, which is less than I paid for it. I live in Florida. Contact me via e-mail at mrinc2001@yahoo.com

[ozarque]

No, I don't need a Kiawah, but I would like to trade a solo whitewater canoe for a Kodiak.

[honeymoose]

I've been away from the forum for awhile, (too busy paddling to play on the computer)! Came back to buy my son a Folbot...no way we can afford a new one. I'm a faithful Folbot user for years, and have purchased many new accessories and parts. I'm on the mailing list... I really enjoyed the purchase advice I could get here and there was a sense of trust I felt when buying off of the forum. I'm sad to see that's lost now. I'm disappointed in you, Folbot. I thought you were above this. Bye for now...I'm off to Craig's list...

[ozarque]

While the goodwill lost and its effect on future brand loyalty from not having the for sale forum is somewhat intangible, the amount of actual sales lost now is equally so.

[PeteS]

FOLBOTS ARE ON SALE RIGHT NOW THROUGH 8/23/10. New boat with lifetime warranty is a good thing!

[DougSC]

Pete I fully agree with your statement, but I also agree with what the majority have said on this topic.

In the current economy keeping the savings account intact isn’t just a good thing it is prudent. For a company in this economy I would think trying to maintain a loyal customer base would be every bit as important as putting products on sale. I think this forum is part of that maintenance, and also think by the amount of response by that base on this topic that a mistake was made by folbot. In fact I find myself looking at the folding kayak forum more often now.

As a new member to the forum I was disappointed the specs for their pre-90 boats were not readily available when I called, but pleased by the help you and others are so willing to provide on this forum. I feel sure y’all would provide the management with as much info that you have in that regard if they asked for it. I do understand that they are more concerned and should be with the current line and the bottom line. I wish them luck and prosperity so my criticism is meant in a positive way.

Wish I could afford a Cooper at the moment on sale or full priced, but it is out of the question at this time. I'll just have to keep that old Super afloat for a while longer.

[ozarque]

Harley Davidson abandoned their traditional customer base in the late 80's when they were bought out by Wall Street investors lead by Malcolm Forbes. They never looked back and set stellar sales records and never regretted leaving the crusty old timers who formed the iconic marketed image in the dust.
The economic times were a-booming then compared to now.
Is there an untimely comparison here? We have a cult of followers but we do not have a cooperative economy. Timing is everything. Is it time to feed the cult or abandon it considering the nation's fiscal state?
On the subject of the value of the warranty, Folbot and the Forum may have done themselves an ironic disservice by building the boats so well and touting their durability. You will never need a warranty if they build it right in the first place. You know with a used boat that it is probably a good one since it was field tested. Maybe Folbot is like the Vincent Motorcycle Company who made a product so well and kept improving it to the point that they priced them out of the reach of the average consumer, but yet produced a cult of followers that rebuilt and raced them for several decades after the company had chundered. Martin guitars has survived hard times over the last century with a shop full of artisans hand-building their world-reknowned instruments. They offer a budget oriented plain-jane model in hard times and are doing so now.
In America, out of crisis, opportunity arises and creative solutions come forth from stimulated minds.
Its time to think out of the box and change the Folbot marketing strategy in more creative ways than holiday sales, fancy ornamented decks or eliminating the very small threat of competitive self-cannibalization as represented by the FOR SALE forum.
Lets take Folbot on the road with a Roadshow marketing plan. Lets build a Model T of a peoples' Folbot for the budget minded paddler in austere times. Make it a stripped-down Yukon with a price point target of $800 that can be upgraded. Outsource the skin production to China for this model.
Display this and other Folbots at discount superstores in a rack that can be transported in small palletized truck container. The one-pallet-sized container is delivered and a representative qualified in assembling Folbot meets it there and sets up the display. The display could be manned or unmanned or partially manned during high traffic times. Orders are taken and boats shipped directly to the customer as before or to the store for a freight savings. After a short run of 3 weeks, the display is packed up and rotated to another locality and repeated. It will appear as something new everywhere it goes and sales would be increased significantly. I will donate my time to run the display for the trial period.
Product awareness of Folbot is low and has always been so. How many people do you meet when you paddle that have never seen one?

[spoonido]

Interesting ideas, Ozzy. Well, here's an idea, or a half baked idea, anyway. EVERY time I take my boat out, someone stops and wants to talk about it. I'm okay about chatting the basics, but if I were selling Folbots, I'd have a card to give the interested bystander with the website address and such. Maybe Folbot ought to give us all business cards! You know - The website could offer us a template and we'd print them on our printers and hand them out when we're assembling/disassembling our boats.

[BernieM]

John
I think the made in America is a plus for Folbot. I hope they don't start to outsource.
Bernie

[Apathizer]

I'm also disappointed Folbot removed the 'For Sale' forum, even though the practical consequence is nothing more than a minor inconvenience for us (customers).

While it was convenient to shop for a used Folbot here, since that's not an option sellers will simply use any number of other sites (ebay, craig's list, etc.). As far as i can discern, forcing buyers/sellers to use another avenue just creates a minor inconvenience for them, and does nothing for Folbot Inc financially. If someone prefers to buy used instead of new, they'll act on this preference regardless of what this forum does.

[ozarque]

Yes it is only a minor convenience to have to buy a used boat trustingly from a total stranger with whom you have very little reason to have faith, rather than someone with whom you share a fraternal association, a friendly commonality of interests; from one who carries a documented reputation.
It is only a minor inconvenience to lose a significant avenue to personal friendship building with others with a similar passion for the hobby.
Every great hobby I can think of involves a healthy network of trading within that hobby. Hot rods, Ham radio, stamp collecting, marble collecting, you name it. They all trade as part of the beauty and attraction of the hobby. It builds a depth and strength within the association of hobbyists and indirectly has the same effect within the market. The absence of the FOR SALE section is a major blow to the overall quality of the hobby as it exists here if only a minor inconvenience to the casual passer-by.
For example, the popularity of the classic Ford Mustang was sustained by the fervent admiration and work of 1000s of Mustang hobbyists across the country. Now we have a retro-classic in the form of the new Mustang, a sales success for the Ford Motor co. Would this have happened without the Mustang hobbyists showing the flag all those years? I doubt it.
Yes, it has nearly a zero effect on the metropolitan citizen, the target Folbot customer.
It only sticks in the craw of the once fervently faithful members of the fold.

[Rogue Paddler]

I am still having a hard time with the owners of Folbot's shortsightedness. I think they should have done a survey of the Forum users to see how many came to the Forum because of the used boats, and then how many actually bought a new kayak because of their initial purchase of a used kayak. And the next question would be, how many of you convinced a friend to get into a Folbot new or used, and did that friend purchase a new kayak from Folbot. And how many purchased paddles, seats, parts etc. flowed from those sales.
I think they would have been surprised at the responses.
I still think they could resurrect the "For Sale" section and reap the benefits that flowed to the company from all of us die hard Folboters.
I believe between us all we've sold many many kayaks for this company without asking anything in return, and also promoted them on remote beaches, rivers, lakes and campsites. I think there should be a quid pro quo. How many promotional photos in far away places would they have without us paddlers posting them on the Forum....zilch!
BRING BACK THE "FOR SALE" SECTION SOONER THAN LATER.
I have been around this Forum for six years. In that time I have bought 3 new kayaks, and 4 used kayaks, and all of them are Folbots.
Convinced a friend to get into the sport. He bought a used Yukon and then a new Yukon. So I am directly responsible for the purchase of 4 new Folbots in 6 years......that is a pretty good track record, and it all came about because I found the Forum and bought a USED GII.
Think about it owners!!!!!!
David in Santa Monica
Yukon Exp, Kodiak Exp, Citibot.